drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  29

  Free load of Watchtower books (tons!), must pick up

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking about getting rid of these books for a long time.

  i have bound volumes starting with 1950s up through the early 2000's (not complete, but probably about 35-40 volumes).

  i also have about 50-70+ books, including some from the 1950's (let god be true & others).

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  drew sagan

  I think there is a need to preserve the lies, so we can protect people against them in the future.

  Most of it has been digitized! And I'm sure the rest will be someday. Besides, saving a few crappy books in my attic is unlikely to change any lives.
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  29

  Free load of Watchtower books (tons!), must pick up

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking about getting rid of these books for a long time.

  i have bound volumes starting with 1950s up through the early 2000's (not complete, but probably about 35-40 volumes).

  i also have about 50-70+ books, including some from the 1950's (let god be true & others).

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  drew sagan

  why not save some energy and just burn the damn things

  I actually did this to a few books. It takes forever because I don't have good place to burn. Putting it out for local trash pickup is eaiser, but I though I would give a shoutout here first.

  You barely get anything on ebay for them. Its not worth the hassle.
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  54

  Anybody Know What Presiding Overseer's are Being Told at Bethel School ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i guess there is a special training school going on for presiding overseers according to my jw mom.

  my elder brother went back there for a week training session .

  he explained that they are doing this training first in the united states only for presiding overseers and if it works out well - they'll implement it across the world in other countries.. apparently he stated that the training they are getting is very detailed and to the point.

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  drew sagan

  I think otwo hit the nail on the head. The WTS promotes a culture of secrecy in order to make low order leaders within the group feel more important. The information is quite superfluous, yet when layered with false importance individuals "in the know" believe they have been given a real privilege, one that is more unique than telling people they have the "privilege" to go out in field service .
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  29

  Free load of Watchtower books (tons!), must pick up

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been thinking about getting rid of these books for a long time.

  i have bound volumes starting with 1950s up through the early 2000's (not complete, but probably about 35-40 volumes).

  i also have about 50-70+ books, including some from the 1950's (let god be true & others).

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  I've been thinking about getting rid of these books for a long time. I have bound volumes starting with 1950s up through the early 2000's (not complete, but probably about 35-40 volumes). I also have about 50-70+ books, including some from the 1950's (let god be true & others). If somebody can come pick these up good for you, I live about 15 miles north of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

  Otherwise, this junk is going to be heading the curb very soon!
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  31

  Jehovahs Witness History ?

  by exjw2814 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i understand that many jehovahs witnesses don't know the history of their own beleifs.

  but, what i don't understand is that they always say "god always had an organization on earth.

  "they simply just talk about how they use to be called "bible students" back in their early days.

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  drew sagan

  This has always been one of my questions. I do feel that JW's have put more research into the unanswred

  If by "research" you mean stubbornly holding onto outdated ideas for decades
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  3

  Kingdom Hall becomes Catholic church!

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/2009/12/24/st_catherine_laboure_dedication/.

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  drew sagan

  But wait, I thought "Babylon the Great" was drying up!
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  272

  *** Christmas Party thread...Everyone's Invited ***

  by FlyingHighNow in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  let's party!

  it's time to forget our troubles and enjoy the holiday season.

  stop in.

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  drew sagan

  MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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  83

  Apostate Brainstorming Session

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been meaning to bring this up for a long time.. sometimes, i think we (former jw's) who are very rightly concerned about all the lies of the governing body have some great ideas about how to expose jehovah's witnesses.. some of us have very passionate and distinct ideas.

  not a few of us have websites with our own personalities evident.. i don't wish this to get personal.

  even if i disagree with some presentations or rhetoric of some, i know that it is sincere.

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  drew sagan

  The idea of "exposing" the GB is a bit ambiguous imo.

  I feel that because the Watchtower is an institution (i.e. social mechanism), the rules of institutions must apply. For instance, once the groundrules have been established for how the institution should function (something I would argue occured long ago inside the Watchtower), a more darwinin system of development is likely to take over.

  Some people in the org have certain spheres of influence, but all are limited. Each person is forced to follow his own self interest, usually through personal dedication to the groundrules. Dedication to the rules becomes the test by which loyalty can be measured. Everybody tests one another.

  Because of this, I tend to believe that individuals with positions of power within the organization probably are far more negligent than they are purposefully deceitful. They work in their own interest, but also in the interest of what they feel is just and right (e.g. the groundrules). They are likely to ignore problems, or create elaborate reasons for why no problems exsist.

  I agree with others who say that active engagement against the organization serves little purpose. Ex-jw communities, like this one, are helpful for people who have already made the choice to leave. The net has given people the chance to find this info eaiser.

  I tend to think that the real problem doesn't rest with ex-jws per se, but with academia. Because the JW's do not actively engage the academic world, articles and books which place the witnesses within theorhetical concepts (e.g. communication theory, comparative religious studies, etc.) is lacking. Good history books on the org are hard to come by. I think analyzing the organization from this perspecitive could be very insightful, but it takes work! As of yet, there is little interest in anybody out there developing some kind journal or organization that really studies the organization as a religious phenomena. Most of the work has been done by ex-jws, which has both positive and negative aspects.
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  20

  Is the Door to Door Preaching Obsolete?

  by lepermessiah in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get some opinions on this.. the last few years i was active as a jw, i thought that the door-to-door preaching work was the biggest waste of time.

  you rarely got anyone home, those you did get home were rarely interested, and it seemed like a huge waste of resources.. in line with that thought, i was speaking with a gentleman at work the other day - he is a very active pastor in the community, and him and i have gotten to be pretty good friends - we have had a ton of interesting conversations.he recently moved his church to a bigger location due to past and expected future growth.. he was telling me that one of his big concerns was the fall-off of church attendance in our area.

  he had a company actually come in and do a study for him with census information, demographics, etc.

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  drew sagan

  It can be a rather pointless venture. I think it remains for two reasons:

  1. Tradition

  2. Busywork

  One should not over look the power of tradition imo. To overturn a long held practice, one that has been used to prove how 'spiritual' and unique the JWs are, would cause many problems. Continuing doesn't costs the Watchtower anything financially per se, although there are indirect costs. If they can find a way to continue the practice, despite its ineffectiveness, they probably will do so.

  One thing is for sure, door-to-door work is not about being effective.
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  25

  A JW--Mormon Alliance? WT and LDS Merger?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  first, there is a disclaimer on the webiste that it is not an "official" lds website.

  however, what appears to be promoted is mormon based.. .

  why would a mormon based website title itself "upon the watchtower"?.

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  drew sagan

  I like the 'mission statement' page....